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HomeNewsSome DMT Dialog, with Questions and Solutions « Louis Kessler's Behold Weblog...

Some DMT Dialog, with Questions and Solutions « Louis Kessler’s Behold Weblog Get hold of US

Michael Kaplan, a person of my Double Match Triangulator program despatched me details about how he was utilizing DMT and in addition requested various questions. I assumed this dialog can be superb for different DMT customers to learn. Michael gave me permission to submit the related components of his e mail to me and to provide his identify. Thanks Michael.

Here’s what Michael needed to say and ask (proven in “quotes”), together with my responses in inexperienced.


The Dialog, Questions and Solutions

“I’ve begun utilizing DMT (on GEDmatch) in earnest.  I now have a complete of 161 kits in my B folder, together with your package.  Be aware that I do have various unrelated folks within the database, together with my spouse, our daughter from my spouse’s first marriage, and a few adoptees that I’ve helped. I’ll additionally add unrelated matches of my very own matches, as a way to decide of which aspect of my match’s household our relationship is perhaps.”

“I started the method by producing my very own section match file, then doing the identical for every of my identified cousins.  When doing the section search, I left the default minimal section measurement as 7 cM.  That’s really helpful, isn’t it?  I don’t need to trouble with false matches.  As well as, decreasing that threshold would truly scale back the variety of discrete matches captured, because the restrict of 10,000 segments can be reached a lot sooner.” 

Sure. The default of seven cM is really helpful. Even triangulations could be false (matches by likelihood) if they’re underneath 7 cM.


“I handle kits for fairly a couple of of my cousins.  Others have performed the add to GEDmatch on their very own.  Then assigned MRCAs, as acceptable.  I do handle a package for one shut match whose relationship is but to be decided.  Renee Watson has ended up within the “FFF” cluster however haven’t confirmed the precise connection.“

“Is there a really helpful subsequent step?  Sadly, I don’t assume I documented the precise path that I’ve taken. I’ll attempt to reconstruct my thought course of.

  1. Discover the closest match (particular person B) which has not but been added to the B folder.
  2. Generate section match file.
  3. Make preliminary DMT run to generate Individuals file for particular person B.
  4. Re-run DMT on my Individuals file (particular person A), searching for triangulations with identified cousins (and different matches already processed)
  5. Run “Match each kits or 1 of two kits” on A and B, with shared matches first ordered in accordance with shared DNA with A, searching for extra triangulations. 
  6. I’m working DMT with really helpful settings of seven cM for Min Triang and 15 cM for Single Triang.  Default settings for “Match each kits or 1 of two kits” are 10 cM for threshold of largest section to qualify as a match, and 10 cM for threshold of whole matching segments to qualify as a match.  Ought to I scale back each of these settings to 7 cM to match DMT?
  7. Then choose the closest shared matches (preferrred quantity TBD) for “Multi-Equipment Evaluation”, working “Triangulation” on that subset.  Default setting for triangulation is 7 cM.  Ought to I depart it at that? 
  8. For every shared match C which is reported as triangulating with A and B, generate a section match file and add to the B folder, if one has not but been created. 
  9. If the section match file had already been created for C, verify that B is proven as a match in C’s Individuals file.  If not discovered, generate one-to-one recordsdata for match between B and C.
  10. Then re-run “Match each kits or 1 of two kits”, this time ordering shared matches in accordance with shared DNA with B.
  11. Repeat steps 7-9.
  12. Now, take a look at tab on “Match each kits or 1 of two kits” for kits matching solely B.
  13. Generate section match recordsdata for the closest matches.
  14. Re-run DMT for particular person A (me) and particular person B.
  15. If tree for particular person B is on the market on GEDmatch, attempt to assign MRCAs on B’s Individuals file
  16. In any other case, look at supply for GEDmatch package (e.g., Ancestry, MyHeritage, FTDNA) and examine if tree accessible on that platform.
  17. Return to step 1 and iterate by remaining unprocessed matches, periodically re-running DMT, as acceptable.”

Step 6:  No want to vary default GEDmatch settings. The 7 cM and 15 cM settings in DMT are for particular person segments. The ten cM settings at GEDmatch are for longest section and whole of segments to find out which individuals to incorporate as matches and doesn’t filter particular person matches. With endogamy, you would possibly if something need to enhance the longest section, reasonably than lower it.

Step 7:  Default setting for triangulation is ok at 7 cM.

Step 12:  I’m undecided why you need kits matching solely B. The purpose is to seek out the connections with Individual A, so how will anybody not associated to Individual A assist?

Steps 13 to 16:  I don’t see how utilizing DMT for the B folks is beneficial until you need to decide Individual B’s connections. Wanting up Individual B’s tree is certainly helpful to see if yow will discover a reference to Individual A’s tree, however there actually isn’t any want to seek out particular person B’s MRCAs and run them as particular person A in DMT if they don’t seem to be your topic of curiosity.


“What’s the optimum process to find out the following package so as to add to the B folder, given solely the accessible kits in GEDmatch?”

I don’t know if there’s an optimum manner. Utilizing the closest match as you’re doing is okay.


“How can we cope with a match with standing “In Frequent With B” in assigned cluster “M”?  Do I want to seek out shared matches which is able to triangulate?”

“In Frequent With B” signifies that A has section matches with C and B has section matches with C, however not one of the matches triangulate for A, B and C collectively. To seek out triangulations, you’ll want section match recordsdata of different B individuals who have matches with C on different segments.  Matches will triangulate for everybody who’s a real match of A on that section on one of many mother or father sides.


“For standing “Solely AC matches”, I must additionally discover shared matches which is able to triangulate.  Is that true?”

On this case, particular person C doesn’t match any of your B folks. The segments Individual B matches with you shouldn’t triangulate with anybody else on each your father’s and mom’s aspect. In the event that they do, then both the section is fake or your father or mom’s triangulation group have to be false. As you fill in increasingly more of your segments with triangulation teams, you must scale back the variety of “Solely AC matches”.


“Matches with standing “Has triangulation” in cluster “U” seem to match a number of different kits on the similar location.  Nonetheless, these segments haven’t but been related to a standard ancestor.  Is that right?  I assume that course of entails extra in-depth examination of household bushes.” 

Sure. If none of an individual’s section matches have been assigned an ancestral path, then they are going to be put in Cluster “U”.

DMT can solely assign ancestral paths to segments the place the MRCA of Individual B or C is thought. So the purpose is to incorporate as many MRCAs as attainable in Individual A’s file, whose relationship with Individual A is thought and is just a single relationship (not associated 2 or extra methods). Second cousins and additional are greatest since they gives you no less than the grandparent degree FF, FM, MF and MM.  It’d sound such as you’d need to go as deep as attainable, e.g. 6th cousins, however the fear the farther out you go is that they is perhaps associated a unique manner that you just don’t notice.


“Whereas I’m conscious that I’ve a big household and lots of identified cousins have already examined (and uploaded their knowledge to GEDmatch), these kits don’t uniformly cowl all of my ancestral strains.  There are nonetheless fairly a couple of gaps in my chromosome map.  Importing the chromosome map knowledge DNApainter.com, on my paternal aspect, I’ve obtained 46% of 396 segments painted, together with the next:

On my mom’s aspect, although, it’s solely 13% of 131 segments painted:

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Complete is 29% of 527 segments painted.”

“Do you’ve any suggestions as to how I can enhance that check protection?  My father’s aspect is bigger.  I’ve simply despatched my sister an Ancestry DNA package.  Hope she is perhaps a more in-depth match to a few of my extra distant matches.  I’ll switch her knowledge to GEDmatch when it’s prepared.  One other paternal 1st cousin has already examined on 23andMe and Ancestry, I’ve requested him to add to GEDmatch.  Certainly one of my maternal 1st cousins is already on GEDmatch.  I’ve requested the remainder of my 1st cousins who haven’t but examined anyplace in the event that they’d be prepared to contribute to my ongoing analysis.  Sadly, a type of was adopted, so not a blood relative.  One other has had a bone marrow transplant and isn’t a great candidate for a DNA check.”

When you’ve obtained all of your kinfolk examined that you would be able to get examined and also you’re maxed out on how the % you’ve painted, then it is perhaps worthwhile to check your DMT Mixed Run for Individual A (your self) to see what else it tells you. Begin to determine triangulation teams the way in which Jim Bartlett does on his segmentology.org web site. 

One other factor you possibly can strive, is to enter your Individuals file and search for individuals who match on 4 or extra segments and search for folks whose segments are all within the cluster they’re put into or else are “U”. Which will point out (no assure, particularly with endogamy) that they match Individual A alongside that cluster’s ancestral line.  Then you possibly can strive including MRCAs for them, however don’t embrace the “R” on the finish, because you don’t know their precise MRCA with particular person A. e.g.  If they’ve 4 section matches on FF, FF, FFM and FF, then you definitely strive assigning them an MRCA of FFM (not FFMR). DMT will use that MRCA as a part of its try and initially assign every section, however will probably be overruled by any triangulations with ancestral paths from MRCAs ending in “R”. This may increasingly assist fill in some unknown areas the place there are not any identified kinfolk with segments.


“Is it possible to work the opposite manner round, say, utilizing the DNApainter chromosome map to pick an as but unidentified section on one aspect or the opposite?  Then enter that section into the GEDmatch section search device, discovering matches who’ve a shared match with me on that section.  I may then look at bushes for these matches, if any, to doubtlessly discover a widespread ancestor.  If no tree is on the market (or inadequate depth is supplied), I may attain out to the match for extra element.” 

You are able to do that to seek out folks at GEDmatch who match you on a selected section. The one drawback is, you gained’t know what ancestral path they match you thru. Looking that particular person’s ancestral tree will solely aid you in the event that they hook up with Individual A’s tree. Every little thing in DMT together with the MRCAs are performed from Individual A’s viewpoint/


“I’ve begun constructing floating bushes for a lot of of my nearer unconfirmed matches on Ancestry, the place they’ve bushes.  Additionally utilizing public data searches to determine different matches who’ve comparatively distinctive names.  I’m reaching out to my closest matches, introducing myself, itemizing my identified fast ancestors, describing our shared matches, providing to share bushes, and asking of they’d be prepared to add to GEDmatch.  I’ll do the identical on 23andMe, MyHeritage, FTDNA, and GEDmatch.  I’ve given up on LivingDNA.  Response is prone to be low, however I’m hoping to seek out connections to the poorly lined branches of my household.  I’ve already gotten a positive response from one shut match and have begun to investigate our connections.

As you’re progressing by an evaluation, at what level do you quit and decide {that a} match is probably going resulting from endogamy alone and doubtless untraceable?” 

In my case, any match that goes additional again than my furthest researched ancestors might be untraceable, just because there are not any extra data from the Russian Empire and Romania that may join them.

With reference to endogamy, it’s nearly the identical as pileups. Endogamy segments are from way back which have been handed by many individuals on numerous strains. They do certainly triangulate as a result of they’re precise segments and every section is handed right down to you thru one particular ancestral path. However that path is at all times too deep to hint and hook up with.  They’re no totally different than any match that goes additional again than my additional researched ancestors.


“What are your minimal standards for contemplating a match within the first place.  I usually concentrate on matches with greater than 90-100 cM shared DNA and largest section of no less than 15-20 cM.  Nonetheless, I’ve had instances the place ThruLines (on Ancestry) has discovered a professional match of as little as 8-9 cM, when there are well-documented bushes on either side.  So, I’ve tried to offer as a lot depth on my tree as attainable.”

For the B folks, I’ll begin taking the folks I do know the MRCA for. For the remaining, I’ll then need to take the best matching ones in every cluster, and attempt to get 5 or 6 in every cluster in order that I’ve perhaps 50 Individual B recordsdata. I’m not as involved concerning the cM as a lot as attempting to get protection of the closest matches in every cluster.


“Does DMT make any adjustment for identified pile-up areas or some other corrections for endogamous populations?”

No. A pile-up or endogamous area are true segments which can be handed down an ancestral path. The one distinction is they’re too far again to seek out the connection. You may determine them simply in DMT whenever you see dozens and even tons of of triangulations all lined up over a section. These may overlap with completely legitimate segments of nearer kinfolk who could be recognized, so don’t ignore these areas. Simply ignore the folks you don’t acknowledge in these areas.


“Any additional methods/hints/strategies for making optimum use of your fantastic device, DMT?  I’m very proud of it, up to now, and hope to be taught fairly a bit going ahead.”

Take a look at the final web page of the Assist File that comes with DMT, titled:  “Concepts, Suggestions and Tips”.

#DMT #Dialog #Questions #Solutions #Louis #Kesslers #Behold #Weblog

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